MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
There is a new government in Syria, but it is facing an old problem.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Ever since ISIS collapsed in Syria, tens of thousands of relatives of those ISIS fighters have been held in huge desert camps. They're mostly children. The United States wants to reduce the population of the camps and get those kids out.
MARTIN: Sacha Pfeiffer of NPR's investigations team has met two young boys who recently left the camps, and she's with us now to tell us more about all this, Sacha, good morning. Thanks for joining us.
SACHA PFEIFFER, BYLINE: Thank you. Good morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So tell us about these camps, and tell us what the conditions there are like.
PFEIFFER: These are massive, primitive tent camps in Northeast Syria. They hold about 35,000 people at this point from more than 60 countries. It's mainly the wives and widows of ISIS militants and their kids. They're officially called displacement camps, but they essentially function as detention centers - barbed wire, little health care, schooling, high rates of violence. And some of the women there are still loyal to ISIS, so the camps are not considered safe places.
MARTIN: So if that's the case, what's the motivation to let people out?
PFEIFFER: The camps are considered a humanitarian catastrophe, so some countries feel an obligation to end that situation by taking back their citizens. And Michel, there's also a concern that if people remain there, especially kids, they could become a new generation of terrorists. One person I spoke with who worries about that kind of radicalization is a former U.S. ambassador named Peter Galbraith. He has helped get many kids out of those camps, and here he is.
PETER GALBRAITH: The older the children get, the more likely that they're going to buy into the idology there. And that's why it is so urgent to get the children out.
PFEIFFER: And Michel, the current Trump state department calls it a high priority, its words, to try to shrink these camps. I will note that some European countries have resisted taking back ISIS family members, even kids, because they worry they're a safety risk. But the U.S. says the greater risk is leaving them there and that these children are innocent victims of mistakes made by their parents.
MARTIN: What does happen to people when they are able to leave the camps?
PFEIFFER: In the case of adults, they get repatriated to their home countries and sometimes end up being prosecuted for their involvement with ISIS. The two kids I met are fortunate because they have grandparents in the U.S. Their dad grew up in Minnesota. When he was 18, he quietly left his family and joined ISIS after being recruited on social media. Then he became a father while he was overseas. Eventually, he surrendered and was jailed, and his children got put in these Syrian camps we're talking about.
MARTIN: And the kids, where are they now?
PFEIFFER: They're 8 and 10 years old, living with their grandparents outside Minneapolis. Getting them back to the U.S. took a lot of work by the American government. But the U.S. considers this family a model for how to help clear out those camps and keep families together. This is their grandfather, Ahmed (ph), who asked that we not use his last name because he's concerned about the security of his family.
AHMED: They love us more than anybody else because they know that we take care of them, and we spoil them. We want to erase anything bad in their memories. May God help us, you know, to achieve that.
MARTIN: And Sacha, now I want to know what happened to the parents?
PFEIFFER: The mother was supposedly killed in Iraq. That's according to the father. The father now says he is remorseful for having joined ISIS. He pleaded guilty to a terrorism charge, and he's now serving a 10-year U.S. federal prison sentence. Once he's out of prison, his parents say they want him to live with them and their grandkids all under one roof. And when I visited their house, I saw what looked like a busy, chaotic, happy home, you know, kids finally getting a normal childhood.
MARTIN: That's NPR's Sacha Pfeiffer. You can hear a more detailed version of the story about this Minnesota family on Consider This. That's our sister podcast from All Things Considered. Sacha, thank you so much.
PFEIFFER: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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