STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
President Trump's administration wants Afghan refugees to go back. For years, the U.S. has provided refuge to Afghans, giving them what is called temporary protected status. Many came after the U.S. withdrawal from the country that allowed the Taliban to retake power in 2021. Now the United States wants to expel as many immigrants as possible and says conditions in Afghanistan have improved. Haris Tarin has an interest in these developments because he worked to develop temporary protected status for Afghans while he was at the Department of Homeland Security in the First Trump administration and in the Biden administration. He's now vice president of policy and programming at the Muslim Public Affairs Council. Welcome to the program, sir.
HARIS TARIN: Thank you for having me, Steve.
INSKEEP: I want people to know, is this right? - that your family were Afghan refugees once upon a time?
TARIN: Correct. We came to this country in 1986, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, and we sought refuge here in the U.S. And my family is here now in the U.S., and I served my country for 10 years in the National Security sector and continue to do so.
INSKEEP: How many Afghans received this temporary protected status in more recent years?
TARIN: In the more recent years, and right before the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in August of 2021 and after, about 9,000 - a little bit less than 9,000 Afghans received the status. So the number is not too high, but about 9,000 Afghans who would have otherwise been in complete limbo and would have been at the risk of deportation, received the status.
INSKEEP: I want to make sure that I understand more broadly. My memory is something more than 100,000 Afghans were evacuated after the fall of Kabul. A lot of them ended up in the United States, but it sounds like not all of them have this particular status. Is that right?
TARIN: Correct. So many of the Afghans who were evacuated after the withdrawal of the U.S. from Afghanistan are actually on parole status. They were allowed to come into the U.S., then eventually went on to apply for asylum, and many of them were granted asylum. Many of them are now in the process of being adjudicated into having green cards and permanent legal status.
INSKEEP: OK, so that's useful to know. It's not like all the Afghans are being told to go back, but this group of 9,000 is being told to go back because economic and political conditions are said to be better in Afghanistan. What do you make of that?
TARIN: Well, I disagree vehemently with that. Afghanistan is still an extremely problematic place to send individuals, families and especially girls and women to. The Taliban continue to be recorded to have gross human rights abuses, especially towards women and girls. As you probably know very well, Steve, girls beyond the age of 10 cannot go to school. So many of these girls who are on temporary protective status would have to leave the U.S., go to Afghanistan, would have to leave school, would not be able to participate in society. I mean, that is a gross human rights violation.
Yes, the security situation has stopped because the Taliban have stopped bombing and have actually are now part of the governing structure of Afghanistan. But the human rights situation, the economic situation - I've got family still in Afghanistan, and we have friends, and the economic situation is extremely problematic still. The majority of the country lives under the poverty line. The majority of the country still relies on international aid and even U.S. aid. So the fact that there may be a level of security, it does not mean that the conditions are ripe for people who have been living here in the U.S...
INSKEEP: Yeah.
TARIN: ...To go back to Afghanistan.
INSKEEP: I want to note here, you're correct. I've covered Afghanistan in the past. I'm thinking of a friend of mine in Kandahar, Afghanistan who told me the story of his 12-year-old daughter going to school on the day when they were turned away from school and had to come back crying 'cause she wasn't going to go to school anymore. What would you say to Americans who would perhaps respond to this - and you've got about 20 seconds here - Americans who would respond to this and say, that's really sad and it's not America's problem?
TARIN: It is our problem as Americans. We fought in Afghanistan for 20 years. These Afghans fought side by side with us for hope for a better future. And I think we, as Americans, not only owe it to those Afghans, but to also our veterans to make sure that we stand by these individuals in their time of need, Steve.
INSKEEP: Haris Tarin is vice president of policy and programming at the Muslim Public Affairs Council and served in the Department of Homeland Security during the first Trump administration and later in the Biden administration. Thanks very much for your insights. Really appreciate it.
TARIN: Thank you for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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