AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
An up-and-coming artist, Oliver, is on the cusp of stardom in the new movie "Lurker." A group of followers and hanger-ons soon forms around him, including Matthew, who meets Oliver at a clothing store and devotes his life to getting close to him.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "LURKER")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Well, I mean, that's cool that they're letting a fan spend so much time around him.
THEODORE PELLERIN: (As Matthew) I'm not a fan.
RASCOE: "Lurker" stars Archie Madekwe as Oliver and Theodore Pellerin as Matthew. And Alex Russell is the director, as well as writer. He joins us now. Welcome to the program.
ALEX RUSSELL: Thank you so much for having me.
RASCOE: When we talk about fans or stans, this word comes up a lot - like, parasocial. That's this idea of this one-sided, really intimate feelings that some fans develop for an artist or a celebrity. Was that on your mind, or is there more to Oliver and Matthew's relationship?
RUSSELL: Yeah, I think it's interesting that people are always using that word, parasocial, when it comes to this movie because the way the movie plays out is it's social. Once they're in each other's orbit, it's hyper social. It's about every little physical glance and moment and word. This could've happened 40 years ago and a lot of things would've played out in the same way. It could've happened among a group of friends where the Oliver of the situation is not a famous person. It could've just been, like, you know, the captain of the soccer team or whatever.
RASCOE: Yeah. What is that between Oliver and Matthew? Is it a friendship, is it romance or is it business? What is their relationship in this movie?
RUSSELL: Yeah, I think the ambiguity and interwovenness of all those things you just mentioned are what sort of fascinated me about the relationship. There's this transactional element, and then maybe there is some aspect of genuine friendship. There also is their sort of creative, professional relationship, and it's all tied together. And they're all sort of pulling at each other and informing each other.
RASCOE: Can you tell us more? Kind of dive into Matthew, 'cause it can be kind of uncomfortable watching him work his way into Oliver's circle. And it also seems sad. He doesn't seem like a happy person. Is this a type of story that you've seen play out in real life?
RUSSELL: All the time. It - I've seen versions of this happen since - after making the movie, too.
RASCOE: Do you feel like someone's trying to get close to you like that?
RUSSELL: I think in less extreme ways, sometimes you are on the inside and sometimes you're on the outside. And, you know, in doing any of the things that you and I do professionally, there are people who want to rise up or be proximal. You see the way people align and make alliances with people, and there's often an agenda. Something I mention a lot is the idea of, like, getting two texts at the same time. And one of them is from your shiny new friend who has something to offer you, and the other is from your old, reliable friend who doesn't need anything from you. Who do you text back first? That is a social calculation that people sort of unconsciously make in the moment, but it is still a calculation.
RASCOE: Yeah. No, I mean, it makes you tense just thinking about it. Like, does that mean something if I text the new friend first?
RUSSELL: Right.
RASCOE: Does it mean (laughter) that - oh, you got to...
RUSSELL: There's maybe some shame in that, you know?
RASCOE: Yeah.
RUSSELL: Or should be.
RASCOE: Turning from Matthew to Oliver, Oliver's the shiny object. When I thought about it, I thought he was the sun that everyone's, like, revolving around - right? - and trying to get closer to, trying to get in the orbit. But he takes his music very seriously, and he always seems to be thinking about how he can stand out and be a real artist. He wants to be authentic. He doesn't want to do the things that have always been done. But then at the same time, he's also just chasing fame and success. Do you see a tension there between, like, the artistry and the commercial side of just selling something?
RUSSELL: The commercial side, sure, is important to him, but I think it's more about - he's very concerned with how he's perceived. And he's almost prioritizing that over expressing something from within. When he talks about what he wants, even if he's hiding it, you can kind of tell that, like, it's not necessarily that he has that much to say, but he would like to be seen as someone who does.
RASCOE: You've talked about how you see this movie as, like, "Mean Boys." It's really the social dynamic between men that's on display here. Can you say more about that?
RUSSELL: I was just exploring sort of things that I felt were unspoken - kind of like petty jealousies among men that, like, you would see in a movie like "Mean Girls" but, like, you kind of rarely see it among men. But men are so jealous of each other, and so - well, a lot of what they do is about sort of jockeying for position. And the sort of the way that they hide those ambitions can be very funny to me.
RASCOE: And often, like you said, it's not talked about 'cause it's like, well, women are quote-unquote catty or whatever, but not men.
RUSSELL: Yeah, I wanted to show how catty men can be, for sure.
RASCOE: (Laughter).
RUSSELL: It's real.
RASCOE: Do you feel like there's a villain in this movie?
RUSSELL: I think at points, various characters are villainous. I don't think it's a matter of black-and-white villain. What I like about this movie is how your sympathies may have to recalibrate multiple times throughout the viewing experience. Like, am I feeling for this character a little bit? Do I feel betrayed by them? Am I now thinking about this other character from another angle and now kind of seeing where they're coming from? You know, that's what I like to watch often, is, like, something that forces me to swirl around in my evaluation of the characters. Whose side am I on?
RASCOE: That's director Alex Russell. His new movie, "Lurker," is in theaters now. Thank you for joining us.
RUSSELL: Thank you so much. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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