Gov. Brad Little Resists Calls For Statewide Closures As Coronavirus Spreads

We know it’s important to bring you conversations with elected leaders making crucial and tough decisions during this time. Idaho Gov. Brad Little joins Idaho Matters today to talk about how the state is working to control the pandemic. 

Read the interview ranscript here:

Gemma Gaudette (host): You're listening to Idaho Matters. I'm Gemma Gaudette. As COVID-19 cases spread through the United States and here in Idaho, here at Boise State Public Radio, we are committed to keeping you updated and informed. Right now, we know that as of 11:15 this morning, there were 47 confirmed cases here in Idaho. And you can get updated information on cases, on closures, as well as how to keep you and your loved ones healthy by going to our Coronavirus blog. Just go to BoiseStatePublicRadio.org to learn more. And you know, as part of our commitment to you, we know it is important to bring you conversations with elected leaders making crucial and sometimes incredibly tough decisions during this time. At 10:30 this morning, we taped an interview with Governor Brad Little as he is part of a White House conversation right now at noon on Monday. So if you are listening to Idaho Matters later on today, we do want to let you know that some of this information may have changed because as we all know, the numbers, they are changing at a rapid pace. Here is our conversation with the governor.

GG: Governor, Little, thanks so much for taking some time out of your busy, busy schedule to talk with us, so we really appreciate that.

Governor Brad Little: My pleasure.

GG: So let's start with -- let's back up to Friday, because you visited health districts around the state. In particular, you visited Blaine County. And tell us what what you saw there. And if you see that shelter in place actually working, that you mandated?

Little: Well, actually, I did not go to Blaine County. I went to that health district is in Twin [Falls] and I went to Twin [Falls], Pocatello, Idaho Falls, Coeur D'Alene and Lewiston. So I did not go to Blaine County. But what I hear, the reports I'm hearing is that it's -- I think there were a lot of pictures of people out there hiking and and being outside. They weren't in place -- was a in the eye of the beholder. But for the most part, you know, the compliance with the president's, the CDC guidelines about the 15 days there was good, you know, good results and good acceptance. Now, we do know that some of the people that left Blaine County are possibly or probably maybe some of the issues and some of these other areas. So we need the help of you and everybody else in the media for people that were in Blaine County to, you know, self isolate if they've got any kind of an indication. And in fact, even if they don't have an indication, you know, if they've been out of there for a while, they'd show symptoms or they were  above asymptomatic. So that's one of the issues. But that's...

GG: So let's talk a little bit about that, because I believe we know that three cases in Ada County and one in Valley County have been there -- I mean, these are confirmed cases -- that they were infected after traveling to Blaine County. So having mandated that shelter in place like you did for Blaine County, is that something that you will mandate for for other counties or make some type of uniformity across the state with this? Because there seemed to be, you know, questions about why one shelter in place, why not another areas when we're seeing cases pop up all over the state.

Little: Well, we're following CDC guidelines. That's I mean, if we have community spread, that's the issue. And we're following the CDC guidelines, obviously some -- well, everything we've got here in Idaho came from somewhere else, mainly Seattle, but some from California and and perhaps some from Asia, but we're not sure that that but that's we're just following CDC guidelines we have all along, and we will continue to do that. The fact that we know that those three cases came from Blaine County and one from in Valley County, the three in Ada County is a good sign. It means we know where they came from and our health districts to contact them and tell them to self isolate.

GG: So, you know, another thing, too, is, is this idea of not gathering in groups of more than 10? And you have you have said that, part of CDC guidelines. But this is, you know, a basically a suggestion and not a mandate. And without an order, it seems like a lot of people aren't listening. You know, there have been pictures on social media of people all hanging out in groups. You know, we see social distancing as well. But not everyone is following that guideline. Are you considering making that a mandate so that we really can flatten the curve?

Little: Well, the issue is, you know, what is a mandate and my health districts, and Department of Health and Welfare don't necessarily have a police force. That's one of the reasons that I'm doing an enormous amount of outreach, all I can. And, you know, a public awareness of this is going up almost logarithmically compared to what it was two weeks ago. And it's so important that we educate people. And when I say educate people, I'm talking about the, you know, the calls I've had with all the mayors, all the county commissioners, all the hospitals. We're trying to do this from a public awareness standpoint. Our press conferences, everything is, A) this is this is very, very, very serious. And people need to take it into account. The order in Blaine County was the first order, and I had to get the the county and the cities on board and I did. And it was very helpful. But, you know, your ability to... I don't think anybody in Idaho thinks we need to have what was -- well, there's a few people -- have what they had in China, where there's people in uniforms dragging people out of apartments or elsewhere. That's just not what we do in this country and in this state.

GG: Is that part of what you-- I believe it was Wednesday during your news conference and you you said, you know, we need to allow Idahoans to be Idahoans. Well, what did you mean by that? Was it kind of like, still allowing people to make their own choices regarding themselves?

Little: Not necessarily what I was talking about as I... People helping people. People taken on personal responsibility and how we need to ramp up personal responsibility. But more importantly, what we need to do to help our neighbors. And that's you know, we have by many measures of some of the most philanthropic activities and participation of any of the states. And that is going to be incredibly important for us to get over this.

GG: Well, speaking of our neighbors, you know, in Montana, which has fewer confirmed cases than Idaho does, I believe on Friday, the governor there closed all gyms, breweries, movie theaters, bars, dine-in restaurants for a week and made a mandate. Again, is that something that you that you would consider doing or again, is it, you know, county by county, locality by locality, which we haven't been seeing here.

Little: We... We are looking at every one of these options every day. The self... the isolation taking place in Blaine County is a good example. I didn't know that [Montana] Governor Bullock had done that. I'm on the phone with governors and the White House is CDC on a very frequent basis. But as I said, we're following the guidance and if people are meeting above that threshold of 10 people, that's just not good practices. But even, I mean, you could have 11 people in a great big, huge facility and they're all 35 feet apart, which is which is much safer than nine people all stuffed into a small area. So people... And that's why this education is so important. Probably the most important thing is people that aren't feeling good because sneezes and coughs, that's that's far and away the largest carrier of this. That's the most important thing. That's why we've got places where they'll say there was somebody that was exposed there and they run everything to ground and find out that nobody else was exposed. Well, if they didn't sneeze or cough or shake hands and people were practicing good hygiene, then it doesn't spread.

GG: And Governor, I mean, you are dealing with so much. I mean, that this is a heavy weight that you are bearing. And I think we are all very aware of that. And as we talk about the social distancing though, there is there is you know, people are dealing with it differently. And that does seem to be with what's being mandated. I mean, for example, when Boise Mayor Lauren McLean, she took decisive action by ordering bars and restaurants, except for takeout, closed for a month. But, you know, over the weekend, I mean, that didn't happen in in Caldwell and in Nampa, you know, everything was still business as usual there. And, you know, we all share the same air, right. When do you think there would potentially come a time where you would see having to put these mandates in place across the state? You know, is there a threshold as to when, you know, you're going to have to step in and say, you know what, we we need to do this.

Little: We will follow suit. We from the very beginning, we've been following CDC guidelines. We will continue to follow CDC guidelines. I would hope that in those other communities, they comply with a 15 day CDC and presidential directive, which we we're all supportive of. And if people are aggregating in communities in groups of bigger than 10, particularly in areas where there's you know, I mean, 10 people in a a park scattered out if they're using good hygiene is way different than than people in a crowded area. And that's a problem with a mandate is our goal is to stop the spread. Our goal is not, you know, more and more regulations, because there's going to get to be a point and the issue that I'm wrestling with is how long does this last? I had talked to my to my state board members of my educational people this morning about recommendations that we're going to be sending out to the school districts here right away. And everybody's question is, when is this over?

GG: Well, and I'm curious, Governor, you know, even if you were to put mandates in place, there is also the question of of self-responsibility. Right. When does that come into play? Because we all know, even if things were mandated and we saw this in New York this last weekend, is that there are people that are not going to do what the mandate says no matter what.

Little: Your answer in your question for me.

GG: Exactly. So at the same time, there are people who who want a mandate. And yet, you know, even from a federal level, there is not, you know, there aren't mandates or recommendations. Do you see a difference in a recommendation versus a mandate?

Little: Oh, absolutely. And and, you know, if you're concerned about this, which I think 90 plus percent of the population is all those directions, people should I mean, they should do them just because it's the right thing to do. That's what I talk about. You know, Idaho's propensity to do the right thing. And that's. But I've got a job to relay that message to people, why it's the right thing. Because in essence, when it gets to a certain point, there are going to be actions that are going to be take place that nobody is going to like. I mean, the the length of the slowdown, particularly for these people that I you know, my heart just bleeds for... That were just getting up on their, their own independent ability to do things. And then all of a sudden their job was pulled out from under them. We know there's programs coming from the federal government. We're going to do some things here in the state to help. But the better we comply with the guidance that we're getting, the shorter, maybe not the shorter, the totality of it, but the smaller time where we're going to have the peak activity, which everybody's worried about, which is a peak activity.

GG: We have to take a quick break. Before we do, I want it, because since since you did mention, you know, we know that there are so many people who live paycheck to paycheck. Right. And as you mentioned, you know that that financial security is is going away. Is one of the things that you will potentially put in place is taking away the waiting period to get unemployment. Because right now in every I mean, you know, normally in every state, when you sign up for unemployment, there's a one week or a two week waiting period. Is that something that you will be be doing for these folks?

Little: So we are looking at all those who... We're looking at every part of that... What what do we do about delinquencies on utilities, what do we do about rent? What do we do about the time frame? What do we do about the time frame for signing up for SNAP and for WIC? All of those are on the table. We're looking at every one of them.

GG: Want to take a quick break and we'll be back right after this.

GG: We're back with Governor Brad Little continuing our conversation and in this part of the interview we really want to focus on on questions from from listeners, a lot of people took some time to to send us voice mails. And so, Governor, we wanted to start with the first question from a listener. And and this is in regards to the first case that we saw in the U.S. being in Seattle on January 20th. And this listener is basically asking, what are we waiting for here?

Listener Question: My name is Pat. I live in Boise. It's my opinion the federal government has a tail wagging the dog. Their big worry seems to be the economy, that to my mind, you can provide all the stimulus money you want. But the only way to really solve this crisis, including the economy, is to stop the virus here and now. And that means closing up everything that's nonessential, including all schools, and require, not suggest that everyone stay home unless they're essential to taking care of people. So my question is, what in the world are we waiting for?

GG: Governor, can you answer that? 

Little: Well, Sure. I mean, we are now at a worldwide pandemic. You know, if you look at Farr's law, which is the two graphs that I pack around with me and show to everybody, is because of the pandemic and because of the spread that exists, we have to manage this to the best we can. And, you know, the issue is we had one case do we shut down the whole country? We would have loved to have... which was which is our model in Idaho was to identify, isolate, quarantine, the people that were affiliated with it. And then when we had community spread in the Washington area, in the California area, and now in many, many states, including in a small area here in Idaho, it changes the numbers. But the the... In hindsight, if we knew that one person was, we could have stopped them. That would have been absolutely great. But we didn't even know. And we're still every day learning about the science of this virus. Our epidemiologists and the whole team of epidemiologists, we have in Idaho, we don't know what kind of spread it is. We don't know if you have immunity once after you have it. We don't have any therapeutics. We're working on a vaccine. Those are all things we didn't know with the information we know is when we have it. We're following CDC guidelines and that's what we'll continue to do in Idaho. I would have loved to have stopped this the first day it showed up. But today we have to work with the situation we have today.

GG: We have another listener question regarding the primary elections.

Listener Question: This is Jay. I live in Hailey. I would... I'm wondering about the May 19, 2020 primary election, and if it could be entirely by absentee mail to avoid the spread of COVID-19 and so that voters have the ability to submit absentee ballot requests online.

Little: Well, first off, you can do that today. Matter of fact, when I voted in the in the last primary, the presidential primary. When I went into my county clerk's office, I got an application. And I asked for a ballot to be sent to me for this next election. So that exists today. And I urge everyone to do that. This morning, I already had a meeting with the secretary of state's office and we are looking at options about how we handle that. I'm very concerned about the age -- I used to think they were older, but now a lot of my age -- but the the age of the pollworkers and the fact that there's some of the some of the most at risk people for that to happen. We will do something, at a minimum, people today ought to be asking their clerk for an absentee ballot so they can vote absentee.

GG: And Governor, another question, it's about restaurants. And this has been, as you know, an ongoing conversation. So we want to play this question as well.

Listener Question: This is Dave Krick, from Bittercreek Alehouse in downtown Boise. I'm working with restauranteurs and food producers and farmers and independent food and beverage people throughout the state. We've we've collectively been working on some policy ideas for the governor. And specifically, we want to talk about social distancing and how to make that policy work, because in our view, the only way that social distancing works -- and we agree with his policy of social distancing -- is that we all have to do it. And while I appreciate that he's tried hard to balance the needs to execute the policy, and to not interfere with people's ability to conduct business, it doesn't work if we don't do it.

GG: And Governor, I know that, you know, restaurant owners around the state sent a letter asking, as we talked about, at least 100 restaurant owners signed the letter where they asked you to lift that one week waiting period. So, you know, any information for Dave Krick, any other restaurant owners out there who are who are struggling right now?

Little: Well, as I said earlier, the people in the hospitality industry, and that's everybody from people that load your bags on an airplane to people that are dependent upon tourism, to particularly to the biggest swath in Idaho or people that are in the hospitality industry. They are... They have been ground zero for the immediate impact. And that's why we're making our programs available on a much faster basis, whether they be the food stamp program, SNAP or WIC, the other programs there. What we do on unemployment, how we treat unemployment, there's we know there's resources coming from the federal government. We don't know all the specificity on it. I'm urging... I think I signed onto a letter this morning with some other governors that we the states have more control of it. The first draft of it was the federal agency that was going to distribute it just didn't have a good network here in Idaho. And we states are raising our hand to say and we'll try and implement that. These are all part of the multiple balls that are in the air as we try and get through this period of time and then get back to some stability. But Dave is exactly right. His industry is at the, you know, at the bleeding edge of this problem. And I my heart goes out to them.

GG: We've another listener question regarding prisons.

Listener Question: My name is John. I live in Boise. Question is, will the governor consider commuting or otherwise ending the sentences of nonviolent offenses, offenders to clear the county jails and maybe state prisons so that these people won't be subjected to a virus that we can't afford to treat them for if they get infected in their institutions?

Little: Well, the first thing we have done has had a significant increase in the... how we isolate our corrections population. Second thing is the screening that we have before we bring anybody into the corrections, municipalities, cities and counties, the courts have all put in a new set of criteria. We know this part of my job to keep people safe. And it's important that we... You know, my biggest investment this year from a legislative standpoint were programs to try and address that part of the population, to get them back into society as smoothly as we can. Those programs are all going to go on. But in consultation with the courts, we are talking about who's... You know, who do we incarcerate? What other activities we have out there. And it's a big issue because I have to have a corrections system that works to keep people safe, not only from the COVID-19, but from a corrections system that starts to have real problems.

GG: We have one more listener question, and this is regarding testing.

Listener Question: Hello, my name is Callie and I'm a Boise resident. My question is about coronavirus tests processing. My husband and I are both considered essential health care workers. And my father, after returning from travel overseas, he presented symptoms about five days after his return from travel. Five days ago, since then, he had been tested. And we are still awaiting his test results. My husband and I were both exposed to him as he has presumed positive so this is impacting our ability to work. I am hearing about test results and brain counting being returned. And one day or less and so my question is around how are we prioritizing testing and test processing?

Little: Okay, great question. Our state lab has capacity to do, I think, 60 or 70 a day? And they were current when I was last with the director, Director [of Idaho's Department of Health and Welfare Dave] Jeppeson all day Friday. Those results come back on a very rapid basis or are going through our state lab. A lot of the problem with testing that took place here out of non tests that didn't go to our state lab. Unfortunately, they went to Utah and that earthquake didn't help things at all there. It slowed down the process. So people that have been waiting here in Idaho a lot of them because they sent them down to a lab there that, A) they're ramping up on a real rapid basis and trying to make sure they they maintain the quality of it. And then the earthquake didn't help anything. We are... There are a lot of things in the testing pipeline that we hope to come to fruition in just a matter of days. And that's one of our biggest problems. Our state lab has increased their capacity by fourfold. We're doing four times as many tests as we were before this started, and we're at maximum capacity now. So we're gonna have to have private labs. We're going to have to have out-of-state labs, and we're trying to implement all of that. And I think the the example that that she cited was the one in Blaine County because A) we knew wasn't the flu. B) we knew it was a high probability. So we ran it through our state lab, but we just don't have enough capacity at the state lab. There's new processes that are being proposed by the FDA and CDC that we think is really going to increase this. But we'd have... If we'd had better testing at the get go in Washington and in California, we wouldn't have the problem. But nobody anticipated this problem coming and it's going to be a problem for the near future. I am optimistic about some of the promises, but I'm still realistic enough. Do we need to continue? And the caller is our target audience. My most important thing is healthcare workers and essential service workers that we can identify him, A) give him the confidence and the peace of mind, but more so to make sure that they're not exposing their fellow healthcare workers. And that's our number one priority here in Idaho right now.

GG: And Governor, I want to circle back to something really quickly, because we had an online question regarding schools being given the latitude by district to district to remain open. But you had a meeting this morning, correct, in regards to what may be coming down the pike for school districts as a whole in the state.

Little: I did. That's... And all the schools are closed in Idaho now. And but, of course, a lot of that matches up with spring break. But the State Board and I've got an emergency task force of superintendents from every district. My state board members, superintendent of public instruction, we are the state board and the superintendent are going to issue guidance, which we've got a little bit of breathing room now because there's nobody that... 

GG: Nobody's in school.

Little: Nobody's in school now. So what we're trying to do is give them guidance about what to do, when to come back, how long to stay, what programs to have in place for their students, what kind of guidance to the districts. And that will be forthcoming from the state board and superintendent.

GG: Before I let you go, Governor, when this is all said and done and years from now, we are, you know, talking about, remember 2020. What do you hope people will reflect on when it comes to your response as the governor of Idaho?

Little: Well, that it was... That it was from the heart that I did the right thing. We have consistently followed CDC guidance and we will continue. That the science that our our state epidemiologists, her recommendations and my small Corona Working Group Task Force, that they did the right thing. We were somewhat fortunate that when we saw this coming from Washington, we stood up a lot of programs in Idaho, and stood them up way before. A lot of the other states... It hasn't been perfect. But I want people to have confidence in government. That's what I said before we ever had the Coronavirus: It's incredibly important to me that people have confidence in government and that the government's doing the right thing at the right time. What we don't know... All the questions that you've had on your program about, look, let's just you know, let's just shut everything down. We don't know. We can't see light at the end of the of when we're going to open back up about when this Farr's curve, when those two curves are going to get there. The one thing that we're working on very hard is to increase capacity, licensing for nurses, PPE, which is... I spend an enormous amount of my time trying to get masks and filters and gloves and gowns... capacity for my health care workers. That's the kind of job one for me right now. And now we're working into the phase where we're trying to ameliorate the economic consequences.

GG: I want to thank you for your time. Governor, I know this is not easy and I appreciate you taking these hard questions that I'm sure I am not the first person to be asking you. So thank you so much for your time today.

Little: Well, Gemma, I want to thank you and your program for getting the message out, because my job gets a lot easier if particularly the rumors are heard or quashed and people are operating with science. And you're a big part of that. And I appreciate it very much.

GG: Thank you, Governor. We've been talking with Governor Brad Little. This is Idaho Matters.
 

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